[blml] convention

[Wayne Burrows]

On 17/12/06, Sven Pran <svenpran at online.no> wrote:
> > On Behalf Of Wayne Burrows
> ...........
> > I don't follow your logic here at all.  Showing an ace in the suit
> > named is showing high-card strength in the suit named even if it is
> > particular strength.  There is nothing in the definition that says it
> > has to show general strength.  Showing an ace is a subset of all of
> > the agreements that would comply with the requirement to show
> > high-card strength.
>
> Strength is measured in HCP, not in the existence of a particular honour
> card.
>

And this is decreed where?

You can't just make something up like this Sven and expect everyone or
anyone to believe you.

> .............
> > > Can we agree that the definition of "Conventional" is flawed?
> >
> > I am yet to be convinced of this.
> >
> > >
> > > The opening call of PASS in a strong pass system is NOT conventional.
> >
> > A conventional pass is defined elsewhere.
>
> Where (in the laws)?

Yes see Law 30C "A pass is a convention if, by special agreement, it
promises more than a specified amount of strength, or if it
artificially promises or denies values other than in the last suit
named"

>
> > > The opening bid of 1C in a strong club system is NOT conventional.
> > > The opening bid of 2C (strong) in a natural system is NOT conventional.
> > > They all show "general strength"!
> > > The response 1D to an opening bid 1C in Vienna and the strength scale
> > > responses sometimes used to for instanced the strong 2C opening bid are
> > NOT
> > > conventional. They show "general strength", namely strength within
> > > particular ranges.
> >
> > The definition does not say that general strength does not make a bid
> > conventional.
>
> It does indeed! See the last clause in the definition of a Convention:
>  However, an agreement as to overall strength does not make a call a
> convention.

IMO that is a wrong reading of this part of the definition.

1C Precision 16+ hcp any distribution.

"16+ hcp" this does not make this call a convention but the "any
distribution" being a meaning other than "offer to play in clubs" or
"high cards in clubs" or "length in clubs" does.

Compare this with:

1C 8-11 with clubs or
1C 11-20 with clubs or
1C 14+ with clubs or even
1C 20+ with clubs

The 8-11, 11-20, 14+ or 20+ being agreements as to overall strength
does not make these bids conventional and since they all show length
in clubs they are not conventions therefore all of these bids meet the
requirement for a non-conventional bid.

What I am saying is the sentence "However, an agreement as to overall
strength does not make a call a convention." does not negate the
requirement for a non-conventional bid to show "willingness to play"
or "length" or "strength".  That sentence is necessary though since
without it Grattan's pedagogic sophist could argue that the meaning
"11-20 hcp" is a meaning "other than ...".  It simply states that the
agreement to overall strength does not in itself make the call
conventional it does not go further and state that an agreement to
overcall strength makes the call non-conventional.  The
conventionality or otherwise of a call is determined by the previous
sentence in the definition.

>
> > If the bid doesn't show willingness to play in the
> > denomination, if it doesn't show high-card strength in the
> > denomination and if it doesn't show length in the denomination then it
> > is a convention.
>
> You had better read the complete definition.
>

I have many times and it makes sense to me.

> >
> > 1C strong, 2C strong and 1D (over 1C) weak are all conventional since
> > none of them show willingness to play or strength or length in the
> > named denomination.
> > >
> > > I cannot define a convention but I know it when I see it.
> > >
> >
> > I doubt that many would accept this as a substitute for a definition.
>
> Neither do I.

But you seem to be willing to rule as if that is your rule.  As a
director the laws bind you to the rules (and regulations) as written -
L81B2 "The Director is bound by these Laws and by supplementary
regulations announced by the sponsoring organisation."

Wayne