[blml] convention

[raija]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tim West-Meads" <twm at cix.co.uk>
To: <blml at rtflb.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 12:10 PM
Subject: Re: [blml] convention


> Sven wrote:
>
>> Please distinguish between "alertable" and "conventional", the latter
>> as _you_ understand the laws.
>
> I made no mention of "alertable" - that's purely down to the SO
> regulations.  I rule that 2S is conventional because it carries the
> message "I have a game invite in Hearts".  I don't care whether the
> "primary" message is that or "I am willing to play in 2S", there are two
> messages one of which is clearly related to Hearts.
>
>> You can hardly find any call that only conveys just one meaning so
>
> I agree that it is necessary that one discounts purely negative
> inferences (e.g. "I have no longer suit than", "Shows 4+S but denies
> 4H") when considering relevant meanings.
>
>> stating that the 2S bid conveys a meaning other than (actually "in
>> addition to") willingness to play in spades
>
> It is also necessary that we read "Other than" as *including* "or in
> addition to"
> How
>
>> By focusing on the primary nature of the call
>> in question and the situation in which it is made.
>
> The *primacy* of content is irrelevant.  We check *all* the agreements
> against the three criteria.  Even if the bid says "I am willing to play
> in H AND I have length AND I have a certain high card strength" it will
> be deemed conventional if there is a 4th priority message "I also have a
> 4 card minor".
>
>> Using this principle on the 5H bid that started this thread: It is
>> also conventional; the fact that that bid shows a particular
>> strength in hearts is a side effect and not the primary nature of
>> that call.
>
> Sven, we are talking about a 5H bid whose primary (and indeed only)
> direct message is "I have specific HCS in Hearts".
>
> Tim
>
I am still following this neverending thread with interest. The thread has 
expanded to other auctions than the OP one. A comment on Tim's point.

In the OP case 4NT (asking for specific aces), the 5H call has two other 
meanings than just showing the ace of hearts.  It also says "I do not have 
ace of clubs" and further, "I do not have ace of diamonds" (unless the 
response structure shows higher ace first...hehe).  While conveying the ace 
of hearts, it also informs about two other suits, so could be analogous to 
the Multi example where 2S also informs about hearts in addition to 
willingness to play in spades.

Anyway, I will let you gurus fight it out, but I still think 5H is a 
convention....I have not yet been able to buy the arguments presented by 
many respected blml'ers...

Raija