[blml] Disclosure f2f

[Stefanie Rohan]

--- Guthrie <guthrie at ntlworld.com> wrote:

> [nige1]
> Whatever happens in other games, the point is that
> Bridge-players from
> different jurisdictions often play Bridge against
> each other and local
> rules impose an unfair and unnecessary extra home
> advantage.
> [Stefanie Rowan]
> Where and when is this happening?
> [nige2]
> Everywhere everyday.
> 
Oh, OK. Maybe a couple of examples?

> [nige1]
> Please note also: the *disclosure* suggestion ...
> - is *not* that everybody *bids* according to the
> same system;
> - it is that we disclose *departures* from the same
> system.
> [Stefanie]
> It does require that everyone learn an additional
> system.  I don't 
> know how much club bridge you play, Nigel, but I can
> assure you that I 
> know many people who have played for years and have
> managed to achieve 
> only a passing familiarity with the system they
> actually play. 
> Learning an additional system is completely out of
> the question for 
> these people.
> [nige2]
> IMO it is fair to compare like with like. I teach
> beginners Standard 
> English Acol but it is remarkable how many have
> picked up the 
> ruidiments of "Strong notrump and five card majors"
> (Some of them from 
> on-line play; others from experience abroad). They
> would all have a 
> head start if they had to disclose departures from
> such a system. 

It doesn't seem to me that such a procedure would be
of any use to most club players. It seems rather
silly.
 
> Contrast that with knowledge of local regulations.
> Few local players 
> (even experienced players) have read the EBU Orange
> Book and fewer 
> conform to its regulations. 

I think that most players manage pretty well.  Some
are educated at the table.  Many times I have told
players who have less experience than I have, "Oh, if
[bid] meant X then you should alert it."  

> [nige1]
> IMO shops and games are different. I think games are
> fairer if played 
> by familiar rules.

The "rules" are the same everywhere.  Disclosure
regulations exist to be useful to the local culture. 
As I have said, strangers could do a bit of research
if they are so concerned.  Where, exactly, have you
experienced the problems you describe?

> [nige2]
> I agree with Stephanie that the EBU Orange book
> alert regulations 
> implicitly define an unplayable system not too far
> removed from 
> "Standard English". Hence, at least until there is a
> global standard, 

(I sincerely hope that hell freezes over first)

> our local regulations would be simpler and better if
> they defined 
> "Standard English" as a local "Standard" from which
> we disclosed 
> departures. As previously explained, one advantage
> (of many) would be 
> that beginners wouldn't need to alert or announce
> anything.

The implied system that we have seems to work fine. 
Announcements for NT ranges and opening twos are a big
improvement.  Do not forget that some beginners will
learn weak twos or some NT range other than 12-14; so
some beginners will have to announce or alert anyway.

One improvement we could use is that normal Stayman
not be alerted.  I don't think that there is anyone in
the UK who uses 2C as a weak takeout. 
>

Cheers

Stefanie