[blml] law 65A/Wayne Burrows/English language

[Wayne Burrows]

On 23/10/2007, Jeff Easterson <JffEstrsn at aol.com> wrote:
> Ahoy blmlers!  May I suggest that the formulation (when...) does not at
> all implicate haste or have anything to do with time, at least not so
> far as I am familiar with English.  It does not state: "Immediately
> when...".  As far as I can see it only means that the card is turned
> "when" (after) all have been played. It does not stipulate a time frame.
>   To use (abuse) Wayne's argument, if the intention of the formulation
> were to infer that the card should be turned quickly, it would say
> "immediately when..." or "quickly when/after...".  Ergo, not modifying
> "when" would seem to me to mean that you have as much time as you
> need/like.  The sense of the "when" would seem more likely to be that
> you don't turn your card before all four players have played a card.
> Anyone see any holes in this logic or interpretation of the English
> language?  Ciao, JE
>

When has everything to do with time.

"when      /ʰwɛn, wɛn; unstressed ʰwən, wən/ Pronunciation Key - Show
Spelled Pronunciation[hwen, wen; unstressed hwuhn, wuhn] Pronunciation
Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adverb 1. at what time or period? how long ago? how soon?: When are
they to arrive? When did the Roman Empire exist?
2. under what circumstances? upon what occasion?: When is a letter of
condolence in order? When did you ever see such a crowd?
–conjunction
3. at what time: to know when to be silent.
4. at the time or in the event that: when we were young; when the noise stops.
5. at any time; whenever: He is impatient when he is kept waiting.
6. upon or after which; and then: We had just fallen asleep when the
bell rang.
7. while on the contrary; considering that; whereas: Why are you here
when you should be in school?
–pronoun 8. what time: Till when is the store open?
9. which time: They left on Monday, since when we have heard nothing.
–noun 10. the time of anything: the when and the where of an act.
"  dictionary.com

"when       (hwěn, wěn)  Pronunciation Key
adv.   At what time: When will we leave?

conj.
1. At the time that: in the spring, when the snow melts.
2. As soon as: I'll call you when I get there.
3. Whenever: When the wind blows, all the doors rattle.
4. During the time at which; while: when I was young, I was sick all the time.
5. Whereas; although: She stopped short when she ought to have continued.
6. Considering that; if: How can he get good grades when he won't study?

pron.   What or which time: Since when has this been going on?

n.   The time or date: Have they decided the where and when?
" American Heritage Dictionary

I suggest that the construction 4. from dictionary.com and 2. from the
American Heritage Dictionary most closely resemble the construction of
the sentence in L65A.

There is only one of the above definitions that suggests the
possibility of a later time and that is 6. from the dictionary.com
definition but even that is 'upon or after which' which would not
preclude immediate action.

To me it is a gross distortion to argue that 'when' in this context
refers to anything other than the time at which all four players have
played to the trick.

Wayne