[blml] ACBL LC Detroit minutes

[Herman De Wael]

Eric Landau wrote:
> On Apr 4, 2008, at 10:22 AM, Herman De Wael wrote:
> 
>>
>> And that was the point we were trying to make.
>> Of course we know that no system is hole-proof. But that does not
>> alter the disclosure obligations, which cover both the area around the
>> holes and the holes.
> 
> So by this logic, no partnership will ever be capable of giving  
> proper full disclosure in all circumstances, and any time you claim  
> no agreement it becomes de facto illegal to work out partner's  
> intention correctly. 

As to the first, of course you can. If two players are on the same 
wavelength, they can inform their opponents of this, no? You would 
prefer them to say "no agreement" and then accept that as literal truth?
As to the second, you are turning things around. It is not illegal to 
work out partner's intention after saying "no agreement", it is 
illegal to say "no agreement" after you've worked out partner's intention.

> The objective of full disclosure is to provide  
> opponents with as much knowledge of your agreements as partner has.   
> That means fully and completely describing what you do know -- "the  
> area around the holes" -- thus giving partner and opponents the same  
> chance to work out the intended meaning of the call, as in the  
> perfectly ordinary, and entirely legal, scenario offered by Alain  
> earlier.
> 

But after working it out you do know what is in the holes. Take 
Alain's 3Di example. Both he and his partner knew he was showing 4414. 
OK, they had never talked about this before, but are you really 
allowing him to keep this information from his opponents? Simply based 
on his saying "we never talked about this"?

> Isn't this the same tired old argument that you should disclose your  
> guess as to partner's thought processes instead of the truth about  
> your actual agreements?
> 

No, because here we are not talking about guesses. We are talking 
about certainties. As to when a certainty descends into a guess, I'm 
not certain, which is why I won't let Alain off the hook if he tells 
me "I only guessed I was showing 4414", and his partner guesses the same.

> 
> Eric Landau


-- 
Herman DE WAEL
Antwerpen Belgium
http://users.skynet.be/hermandw/index.html