[blml] Amended L27C1/27C2 question

[Stefanie Rohan]

Wayne Burrow:

> On 12/02/2008, Tony Musgrove <ardelm at optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>>
>> > >> On Behalf Of Robert Geller
>> > >> A 1C open promises opening bid strength, but may show only 3 (2) 
>> > >> cards
>> > >> in clubs.   OTH a 2C overcall of 1D should show at least a good 5 
>> > >> card
>> > >> suit,
>> > >> but might be less than opening bid strength.  Thus it isn't clear to 
>> > >> me
>> > >> that
>> > >> when South changes his insufficient 1C (intended as an opener) to 2C
>> > >> that the 2C call "incorporating the information
>> > >> contained in the insufficient bid."
>> > >>
>> > >> I suppose we'll have to wait for the wisdom of the WBFLC on the
>> > >> meaning of "incorporate."
>> > >
>>
>> Bob's original question gave me some cause for concern as I have had
>> two cases of 1C (1C) under the new laws.  I have in both cases allowed
>> a negative double although I have tried to give them the opportunity of
>> bidding 2C (if it is non-conventional) if they wish. (Very hard to 
>> explain at
>> the table BTW).
>>  Under the old rulesI used to shoot them if they opened 2 card club 
>> suits,
>>  and allow a change to 2C if they played better minor (or some such).
>> Now it occurs to me that I myself would have 4 clubs to open 1C, so I
>> cannot be allowed to change my insufficient bid to double which might
>> promise only 3 say.  Fortunately I never make insufficient bids, just 
>> lots
>> of bids which are too sufficient.
>>
>
> I don't think an insufficient 1C should be allowed to be changed to a
> takeout double.
>
> The information from the 1C means that partner knows you dont have a
> strong hand with spades for example or a classic takeout double with a
> stiff club.

Tony's auction is a little unclear, since he says negative double. But 
assuming the auction really went 1C(1C), then the 2C correction is surely 
impossible. This is not normally played as a natural bid! Does the 
insufficient bidder's system change from eg a Michaels cue-bid to a natural 
overcall in clubs?

Some may remember a discussion that goes back a long time, when there were 
some objections to the fact that IBers got a new weapon in their arsenal 
(penalty double, natural cuebid, etc) when they knew that partner was barred 
from the remainder of the auction. I never had a problem with that, but I am 
not comfortable with a *penalty-fee* correction that introduces new elements 
of system.

As for negative doubles, I realise that a lot of people promise 4+ cards in 
the unbid major(s). But do they ALWAYS have it? Have they never picked up a 
hand unsuited for another bid (eg a 1NT response that doesn't have a stopper 
in the overcall suit)? Have they never had 4-3 in the majors after 1C-1D? A 
hand with values but unsuitable for immediately raising partner's suit to 
the 2 or 3 or 3+ level? (Before anyone jumps down my throat, the question 
marks mean that I am ASKING. With my regular partner I play these doubles as 
takeout. I do agree to this majors-promising stuff with other partners, but 
I have never thought to ask just how firm a promise it actually is).

Stefanie Rohan
London, England