[blml] ACBL LC Detroit minutes [SEC=UNOFFICIAL]

[Hans van Staveren]

[DALB]

I am not sure what progress is likely to be made here. Suppose one proposed
to address misbidding and misplaying concerns in instances where the
confusion caused by mangling the auction and the play caused more damage to
the non-manglers than to the manglers.

[...]

If on the other hand Mr Gordon proposes to do something about situations in
which (a) a pair forgets its methods and (b) it thereby tells the opponents
lies about what its methods actually are, and perhaps (c) it appears to
weasel out of the consequences of having forgotten by taking some
pusillanimous action, then more power to Mr Gordon's elbow. There was a case
not long ago (it might even have been Hans van Staveren who raised it) where
some chap opened 2H to "show" both majors on a 2=5=4=2 shape. Apparently he
had "forgotten", and luckily his partner did not bid 4S and go nine down
doubled; instead, the opponents could have made more spades (six) than they
actually bid (four).

Well, if the chap could substantiate that the "actual partnership agreement"
was that 2H showed hearts and spades, fair enough - just about, though it
still stinks. If he opened 2H intending this as Muiderberg and then connived
at some pretence that it showed hearts and spades, I would... well, I would
see Robb Gordon's point if what he wanted to do was have the man executed.
If you're going to play complicated stuff, you should know what it is you're
playing; there really isn't much of an excuse for making the wrong opening
bid.

[HvS]

Good, to the heart of the matter. Luckily I am more likely to get reason out
of David than the whole of the Dutch NAC.

Let us start with his last paragraph. I could not agree more. If indeed
their partnership agreements are dodgy, and they are trying to wriggle out,
you could have them shot for all I care.

However, as human beings are human beings the following could also happen:

EW are a 5 year partnership. Their system is stable. 2H is weak in majors or
some strong. However, for whatever reason (tiredness, lack of attention
because of personal problems, general absent mindedness) West opens 2H with
a Muiderberg. Now at this point in general EW are at a disadvantage. East
will bid as if partner has at least 4 spades. West can never run from any
high doubled spade contract because there is a good director present(and he
is also a moral player). It just so happens that EW gain some (in this case
slight) advantage, because of the lie of the cards.

Now in this case, according to me it is according to standing law and
practice, and furthermore reasonable, that the score should stand.
You are allowed to get lucky every now and then.

You could argue that the next year, anytime this particular West opens 2H in
this partnership, his partner should press salt into his wounds by adding to
his system explanation that partner has a history(1x) of forgetting.

I am still interested in any reasonable discussion about this subject,
because it clearly rouses emotions. In an ideal world people would not
forget their own agreements. But just look around you, it is not getting any
better....

Hans